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D-Bass
Pete, I agree with SOME of what you're saying.

But I strongly disagree with your statement about how some shops wouldn't know how to build for SPL, or to tune an SPL wall. not that part, but where you continued to explain that because of that, they shops know less about CAR AUDIO than the spl-head. I think that's rediculous. I know a lot of spl guys who are very good at that, but many of them have no business working on newer vehicles. I would say that a majority of them have no idea about data modules in most newer vehicles just for radio replacement, balanced and common factory signals, factory amp circuit, factory auto-eq and adaptive crossovers, fiberoptic interfacing, Canbus data networks, or REAL sound quality and sound wiring and building techniques. Also most shops aren't just involved in sound, they are doing alarms, remote starts, sunroofs, leather, seatheaters, bluetooth integration.

Besides, you know how long it takes to build and design spl systems. They are never just built and done. They take hours of testing and rebuilding. Who would pay a shop $65/hr for a thousand hours to build their CRX system with 20 different boxes, just to hear the customer bitch that it's still not louder than Terry Brocks.

and SPL systems almost always look like ****, I wouldn't want that coming out of our shop. Just not worth our shops time either sometimes.
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mjs123
Totally agree D-Bass...shops may not "specialize" in SPL systems, but MANY of them have the capability to do them. Most installers at legitimate professional shops have knowledge of many other aspects of installing too. Your point about the looks of an SPL install are true for the most part too. One of the bad things that happened with audio with the "extreme" class cars was when everyone forgot about making it look at least decent.

As far as the point by Pete about shops not carrying SPL related equipment, I can't blame shops for that. How much of that equipment does a shop really sell? Very little. I do agree some of the "unknown" equipment is better, but from a shop owner's standpoint, which will sell better, JL, Rockford, Kicker, or some brand a kid off the street has never heard of? You can only educate a consumer so much on the quality of a product, they are still gonna make their own decision.

I do agree with the point about tickets and noise complaints though. I get sick of hearing Harleys at full bore and the cops don't even look at them, because the idea is "Loud pipes save lives" which is great, but don't be so hard on a kid with a couple 12's playing music.
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PeteS
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Originally posted by D-Bass:
Pete, I agree with SOME of what you're saying.

But I strongly disagree with your statement about how some shops wouldn't know how to build for SPL, or to tune an SPL wall. not that part, but where you continued to explain that because of that, they shops know less about CAR AUDIO than the spl-head. I think that's rediculous. I know a lot of spl guys who are very good at that, but many of them have no business working on newer vehicles. I would say that a majority of them have no idea about data modules in most newer vehicles just for radio replacement, balanced and common factory signals, factory amp circuit, factory auto-eq and adaptive crossovers, fiberoptic interfacing, Canbus data networks, or REAL sound quality and sound wiring and building techniques. Also most shops aren't just involved in sound, they are doing alarms, remote starts, sunroofs, leather, seatheaters, bluetooth integration.

Besides, you know how long it takes to build and design spl systems. They are never just built and done. They take hours of testing and rebuilding. Who would pay a shop $65/hr for a thousand hours to build their CRX system with 20 different boxes, just to hear the customer bitch that it's still not louder than Terry Brocks.

and SPL systems almost always look like ****, I wouldn't want that coming out of our shop. Just not worth our shops time either sometimes.
Just want to toucj on the fact my comments were in general.....Meca Sq competors can fulfill the remaining part of my statment as far as speaker placment and OE look of intergation. As far as the new cars...I'm a retail auto tech so I know where your coming from on whats involved in the newer cars to add things such as Hu's and so on.....however there are only 3 class's left in Db Drag that require a in dash head unit. It's simple enough to wire up a podium.


In general again......why would a local shop host shows ? It's very clear this is no longer a place they can make money in the SPL sceen. Where do we look for suport now ? Vacent parking lots or old warehouse's ? It's not the competiors fault that retail car audio has fallen behind yet the competior is left with no place to compete.


I do see the days or having HUGE shows is all but over and seeing shows every weekend all over is a thing of the past. Competiors out grew there welcome with noise and knowledge.

As for the future the people that are currently complaining about noise will with time pass as will there say as the majority on how laws are handeled. If Db Drag was as good and large as people claim it was then in time these noise complaints should fade away....right or will a person that won a world champship in 1995 be the next person to call and complain about some guy bassin it up next door ? If thats the case then we truly are doomed.
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PeteS
Quote:
Originally posted by mjs123:
Totally agree D-Bass...shops may not "specialize" in SPL systems, but MANY of them have the capability to do them. Most installers at legitimate professional shops have knowledge of many other aspects of installing too. Your point about the looks of an SPL install are true for the most part too. One of the bad things that happened with audio with the "extreme" class cars was when everyone forgot about making it look at least decent.

As far as the point by Pete about shops not carrying SPL related equipment, I can't blame shops for that. How much of that equipment does a shop really sell? Very little. I do agree some of the "unknown" equipment is better, but from a shop owner's standpoint, which will sell better, JL, Rockford, Kicker, or some brand a kid off the street has never heard of? You can only educate a consumer so much on the quality of a product, they are still gonna make their own decision.

I do agree with the point about tickets and noise complaints though. I get sick of hearing Harleys at full bore and the cops don't even look at them, because the idea is "Loud pipes save lives" which is great, but don't be so hard on a kid with a couple 12's playing music.
Point being the product has failed the shops. 10 years ago if you could get competive grade componments from a local car audio shop they sold a product worth having. Whats sold today is made so cheap it's a joke. Shops want the bottom line as a huge profit plain and simple. Whats competor grade today may be vastly bette then what wa there 10 years ago and thats a good thing, shops choose not to carry a product that is worth selling to competiors.

Why can't the retail customer that wants stupid bass have a true 5K amp 2 extra batterys a 250 amp alt and a bass azzzz pair of 12's ? Belive me go look around on forums and these people are alive and well. Shops choose to sell cheaper easyer to work with products that will be replaced in a years time. Whats the point in a shop selling a rebuildable sub...the customer wont be back to buy a new sub when he blows it he would simple have it rebuilt.

Shops just want to sell whats putting the most in there pocket or will work well in a prefab box and can be powered with a 4 chanel amp.
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mjs123
You are right about that Pete...it's one of the reasons I left the shop I was at for many years. I don't blame them for worrying about profit, trust me, I've been involved in a few business since...but the returns and problems you get from cheap equipment is costly in itself. And obviously online sales hurt shops some too. A couple old school friends and I were just saying that you can get WAY more power and stronger subs for less money than what we paid back in the day, so the possibility of the SPL/competing thing coming back is there, it's just gonna take shops wanting to build vehicles to show off and have shows...let's hope anyways...
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kimboslice2
Quote:
Originally posted by PeteS:
Quote:
quote:
Originally posted by mjs123:
Totally agree D-Bass...shops may not "specialize" in SPL systems, but MANY of them have the capability to do them. Most installers at legitimate professional shops have knowledge of many other aspects of installing too. Your point about the looks of an SPL install are true for the most part too. One of the bad things that happened with audio with the "extreme" class cars was when everyone forgot about making it look at least decent.

As far as the point by Pete about shops not carrying SPL related equipment, I can't blame shops for that. How much of that equipment does a shop really sell? Very little. I do agree some of the "unknown" equipment is better, but from a shop owner's standpoint, which will sell better, JL, Rockford, Kicker, or some brand a kid off the street has never heard of? You can only educate a consumer so much on the quality of a product, they are still gonna make their own decision.

I do agree with the point about tickets and noise complaints though. I get sick of hearing Harleys at full bore and the cops don't even look at them, because the idea is "Loud pipes save lives" which is great, but don't be so hard on a kid with a couple 12's playing music.
Point being the product has failed the shops. 10 years ago if you could get competive grade componments from a local car audio shop they sold a product worth having. Whats sold today is made so cheap it's a joke. Shops want the bottom line as a huge profit plain and simple. Whats competor grade today may be vastly bette then what wa there 10 years ago and thats a good thing, shops choose not to carry a product that is worth selling to competiors.

Why can't the retail customer that wants stupid bass have a true 5K amp 2 extra batterys a 250 amp alt and a bass azzzz pair of 12's ? Belive me go look around on forums and these people are alive and well. Shops choose to sell cheaper easyer to work with products that will be replaced in a years time. Whats the point in a shop selling a rebuildable sub...the customer wont be back to buy a new sub when he blows it he would simple have it rebuilt.

Shops just want to sell whats putting the most in there pocket or will work well in a prefab box and can be powered with a 4 chanel amp.
Its not the Shop it's the Customer!! there is just not enough good customers to keep audio to a certain level but this has been a issue on the mfg level look at some of the great sq mfg Gone!! most customers today are clueless!!!
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mjs123
I actually believe it's a little of both. By not having enough customers, shops choose to do less shows/custom cars....I do agree some about the good SQ manufacturers being gone, such as OZ Audio (the old company with the superman look, not the newer stuff), AVI, etc. There are some good ones out there still. Not sure how MB Quart is now that they were sold...

Customers are only as clueless as the salesman allows them to be. That's their job to educate, not just sell. I think one problem with some shops (including the one I worked for) is they need to get the installers more involved in the sale. Who knows the equipment/cars better than the guys who do it everyday?

Like I said before, I'm hoping as the economy continues to improve like it has been will bring customers and shows back. I'd love to get more involved again myself...
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D-Bass
we're building a new vehicle for our shop/owner. Nothing to loud, nothing too crazy, but maybe I'll post a link or pictures....but some panels have already been put back on.
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violent b
I've been away from this forum for a while but coming back and reading these posts give me real hope that 12 volt will become strong again with help from everyone here.

Who remembers the first Spring Break Nationals? I was 18 and the jaw dropping feeling I got checking out the rides, hearing(and feeling) the music, and just the electricity in the air was a rush. compeditors were willing to take time with some punk kids who probably didn't have a dollar to their name, tell them what they did to get their vehicle to this point, and gave the kids a sense that they could have the same thing with hard work, not just a blank check. bring back the fun in shows, not caring about 1st, 2nd, or 3rd but you seeing your friends showing off thier vehicles because they love to do it.

now for the business side, we need to adapt to the times or get left behind. Yes you can find stuff cheaper online, yes stuff doesn't last as long, yes people don't have as much money to spend, but does that mean you throw your hands up and give up? Once we change our mindset, think outside the box to reach new customers, and really take care of the customers you have now, I believe the business will come back around. It won't happen overnight but it will happen. there are too many of us who love this industry/sport/hobby to let it die out.

I don't know if this really had anything to do with anything but I felt I had to say it.
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mjs123
I completely agree...we all used to show our systems, play them for kids, tell them all about it...I understand keeping some secrets so you can have a competitive advantage, but let most of it show so you can get more interested in competing, or even just building a system for themselves!

I do understand the whole "burp" systems too, I was even working on a pretty serious one when I decided to leave the business, but I think there needs to be more advancement in classes that promote "real" systems that play more than just burps in order to create more interest in competing for the little guys who don't have 30 batteries and 100,000 watts of power. I think there's a place for both in competitions, but the chances of the scene growing again goes right along with having some classes devoted more toward the average kid out there. I still remember my first competition with an Autotek 7100BTS running 2 Savard Rap 15's. I actually felt like I had a chance and I think these new kids in the scene need to be able to feel that way too.

I think the fact that there aren't many local shows (especially USAC, IASCA and MECA) hurts too. We need kids to see what a really good sounding system sounds like, not just loud bass. I remember being able to go to a show and I sat in Tyrone Chestnut's Acura Legend and heard what a really great (and award-winning) car sounded like. Not many people get a chance to sit in a car like that and have the owner let you listen and tell them all about the install...really spiked my interest in building great sounding cars.

I know this is long winded (and shows how old I'm getting talking about these competitors from the 90's) but I really think with enough interest we can get it back at least close to what it was again!
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